S4:E6 – Heal your Hole with Norma Sheahan

Super Brain Blog – Season 4 Episode 6

Heal your hole with Norma Sheahan

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  •  00:37 – Why heal your hole?
  • 02:45 – Acting is an addiction
  • 07:27 – Acting as therapy
  • 10:41 – Working for nothing
  • 13:19 – memory, learning lines and Shirley Valentine
  • 23:03 – writing a book
  • 27:09 – brain fog
  • 30:15 – habits
  • 32:26 – selling houses
  • 34:53 – breakdowns, itching and fasting
  • 40:43 – studying
  • 45:03 – creative parenting, parental struggles
  • 55:47 – heal your hole test
  • 57:59 – Norma’s wisdom


Norma is appearing in Shirley Valentine at the Gaeity Theatre, Dublin from 11th to 16th October 2021 

Book tickets


Guest Bio


Norma Sheahan, actor, writer, voiceover, and host of the Heal your Hole podcast, she’ll try anything. She’s in Gaiety performing “Shirley Valentine” presently. She’s RADA trained and has performed in most theatres. She won best actress for Enda Walsh’s ‘Bedbound’. Tv roles include The Clinic, Mooneboy, Bridget & Eamon, Damo & Ivor, Dead Still, Holding, Women on the Verge, Can’t cope won’t cope and lots more




 Over to You

Shirley Valentine mis-pronounced the word clitoris incorrectly because she had never heard it said aloud, she’d only read about it in books – and thought it was rather ‘grand’ they way she pronounced it cliTORus.

Do you have any words that you mis-pronounce in public? I have a few to be honest – one of them is vegan and I’ve reached the point where I panic and don’t know which is correct veegan or veygan.

Don’t forget to share the episode on your social media.


(this transcript has been produced by AI and checked by a human  – nonetheless it may contain errors)

Dr Sabina Brennan  00:00

Hello, my name is Sabina Brennan and you are listening to Super Brain the podcast for everyone with the brain this week’s episode is really really different because myself and Norma Sheehan are kind of combining our podcasts and everybody knows that I usually research my guests in depth and have lots of prepared questions this time I’m going Commando.And myself and Norma are just going to kind of get to know each other talk about all sorts of stuff and this is also going to go out as one of normals podcast episodes which has a fab name


Norma Sheahan  00:37

Yes mine is called Heal your Hole I’m not as experienced as you are now so I let your brain lead the way and if you have any holes that need healing will heal them along the way what my intro is usually


Dr Sabina Brennan  00:49

Welcome to the Heal your Hole podcast with myself Norma Sheahan where we look at all the various holes in your life physical mental, spiritual, emotional, financial, chemical sexual, and we give them all a good seeing to


Dr Sabina Brennan  00:59

our that’s brilliant. I was just about to ask you why Heal your hole? I don’t mean why you should heal your hole Why did you call your podcast heal your hole?


Dr Sabina Brennan  01:06

Well I did Celebrity Ireland’s Fittest Family, and Donacha O’ Callahan was our coach and we won it and we got 10 grand for Arc House Cancer support in Cork. But during the first challenge, I fell on my cocyx and broke it. Yeah, and Donacha said get up off your hole and get on with it. Down the line someone asked me to do a comedy tour and I said I don’t know anything. All I can think of is Heal your hole life this heal your hole idea. And I started it as a one woman show kind of a stand up it was touring, it was selling out because so many people needed their hole healed. And then COVID hit so we were 10 or 20 shows and they were selling really well and a few more sold out. And then I changed it to a podcast once COVID hit and turned the car into a studio with duvets and pillows and mics. And I used to do my voiceovers there anyway. But I started the podcast out there


Dr Sabina Brennan  01:59

it’s just absolutely brilliant. And of course, the way that came out was you needed COVID like a hole in the head. Like literally, everything was just taking off. Now Norma and I know each other because of the excellent Emily Burke who happens to edit both of our podcasts. And we really would be lost without her. She’s an absolute genius. She’s just brilliant to work with


Dr Sabina Brennan  02:19

Not only is she genius here, but she would be the guide of my voice career for many years. She’s always looked out for me, I do voiceovers as well. So I’d be the voice of supermarkets, for the government and fore banks and stuff. And certain people gave me a leg up when I needed.


Dr Sabina Brennan  02:36

Oh that’s fabulous. Well done, Emily, and I can do voiceover work too, Emily.


Dr Sabina Brennan  02:42

You certainly could, have you never done this?


Dr Sabina Brennan  02:45

No, I did always kind of want to do it in my acting days. So this is one thing that I know that you and I have in common is that I used to be an actor, and you still are. So I’m kind of a little bit jealous of you. Because…


Dr Sabina Brennan  02:57

Well, I’m jealous of you. Why? Because it’s an addiction and you’ve got over your addiction and got on with like having a sane life.


Dr Sabina Brennan  03:05

That’s really interesting, because it is kind of an addiction. I’ve never heard it described as that. But the reason I do know of it as an addiction we’re talking about acting as an addiction is that the amount of people that I know who are still in, it’s still doing, it’s still trying to make it and not making it and seeing that as “Well. I never gave up on my dream”. But you know what, sometimes you can go other directions and find different stuff. I mean, I’d be really honest. Like I didn’t go cold turkey and give up on my acting like I worked in TV, and my character got killed off. And it’s really weird here in Ireland, like you’re kind of told after you’ve had a big story ‘well, you won’t work for a while’ because everybody will know who you are with that, which is crazy everywhere else you’d be snapped up to go and work on other stuff. And I just thought I’d do a night course while I was waiting around because the hardest part of being an actor is doing nothing. The acting is the easy part in a way really,


Dr Sabina Brennan  04:00

it’s the acting is like going to a spa for a weekend or whatever. And you get minders, you get whatever. And the thrill of being actually performing is like taking drugs. So it’s trying to get the work is the slog, as you just said,


Dr Sabina Brennan  04:13

Yeah, and the not getting the work, the disappointment. And it’s that one thing you can’t act to yourself at home. I mean you could but then you’re really kind of going mad. You need to have a job somebody needs to employ you at least if you’re a writer, you can continue to write stuff. Acting is just one of those things and that I find that very, very frustrating. But you’re right, it is like a drug, you will get such a high. And even and I never did that much live theater, I preferred film and television. But I did used to get it right through to my fingertips just before I was ready to go on stage. And I remember someone beside me – we were doing a play in a pub somewhere –  mad play. And I was saying oh my god, it’s everywhere. And the girl next to me was waiting to go on stage said ‘Yeah it’s better than sex.’


Dr Sabina Brennan  04:57

And I knew I had the addiction. I wrote essays when I was six or seven When I grow up, I’m going to be an actor. And that’s it, you know, full stop


Dr Sabina Brennan  05:02

Right, Well, I started acting at eight.


Norma Sheahan  05:04

Yeah, yeah. So I was determined, but where I’m blessed is that I can’t not work. So I can’t sit and do nothing.


Dr Sabina Brennan  05:13

I can’t either.


Norma Sheahan  05:14

 You can’t either. So you know, you just basically found different strings to your bow. When you’re on a podcast, you’re acting. When you’re writing your books you’re writing, you know, you’re you’re still researching and creating, you have a creative gene that needs the buzz and the highs and the lows. And even if it’s your book, doing well, or doing good from day to day, it’s still a high as a whole


Dr Sabina Brennan  05:32

Yeah, it’s the same I make animated films, like I have animators, but I write produce and direct them, they’re the creativity, I found a way to blend the science with that creative need, urge, desire, I have to do it. So actually, I don’t feel in a way that I’ve given up on acting, I’m just doing it in a very different way. And I’m doing it in a way that I have control over. Like I give talks, I do a lot of corporate wellness talks that’s performing I’m not standing up on the stage acting as people might think.


Norma Sheahan  06:01

But it is performing way more difficult, you don’t have someone else’s script to perform. It’s your own script or your own.


Dr Sabina Brennan  06:08

So I have to write my own scripts. And these ones are research. They’re grounded in science, that’s great. But actually what I do is translate complex science into easy to understand information. And I hang a few jokes, and I try and find entertainment. My animations are all funny. Well, funny. They’re not funny Haha, in a way, like a stand up show would be


Norma Sheahan  06:26



Dr Sabina Brennan  06:27

Yeah, my first set of films where I got funding to make I actually pitched Could I get funding to make 10 fun films about dementia. Now there’s a pitch. But I said, here’s the thing. We have problems with dementia awareness. Nobody wants to talk about dementia, everybody has their head in the sand. I’m passionate about raising awareness about how you can reduce your risk for dementia. Yet the Alzheimer’s Society sent me films and say ‘Have a look at this and see what you think’. And I didn’t want to watch it. Because I don’t want to be depressed. So my solution was, well hang on, can I make little cartoons where there’s a bit of humor in it, but the message is there. And I did that and they just took off. Just because the topic is serious doesn’t mean that you have to treat it with this reverence, where you can’t laugh. And they worked because people can laugh and cry, and still get the message


Norma Sheahan  07:13

That’s why your podcasts are great as well. Because you know, one week you could be crying listening to it, and it could be so deep and scientific. And another week, PJ Gallaher, has you peeing in your pants, you know, I find with acting as well, but we got sent to drama classes as kids,


Dr Sabina Brennan  07:26

Me too


Norma Sheahan  07:27

I was addicted and hung on to it. Well, my sister did the best of all of us, because she had a stammer and a lisp. And she went from that to having a better job than the other four of us and outearns us all, because what drama gave her was the humiliation of standing up in poetry competitions or in a class or whatever, and delivering blah performing. So she’s able to present herself like you do at your talks in boardrooms and wherever and at trade shows, and I would reckon drama did more for her than probably me.


Dr Sabina Brennan  07:54

But you know what, when I so kind of to give myself permission to kind of try acting full time, I got into the Gaiety School of Acting, unfortunately, I couldn’t afford to go because I had a mortgage at the time, which was kind of tough. At that time, I had two young kids, but I qualified with the Guildhall School of Music and Drama to be a drama teacher. So I taught Speech and Drama to kids. Now a lot of the parents came to me and said, Can they do their exams? For people who don’t know you can do exams for Speech and Drama like you do your music exams, You do your grades, and you can qualify, etc, at the end as a teacher or as a performer. And I did those from the age of eight, right up. But that’s not the kind of teacher I wanted to be. And so I said, No, if you want them to do that, send them somewhere else, I’m here to actually build their self confidence, give them the skills to be able to have a conversation or to talk to people in public. And that’s what I was about. It was about fun. And that’s actually obviously then sort of what your sister gained of it. And I had a couple of parents came down and said, You’ve just oh they were so shy, and it’s just kind of transformed them got them out of their hole, their dark hole.


Norma Sheahan  08:58

Got them out of their dark hole, because it is therapeutic. Like a lot of kids who are anxious or have difficulties in certain areas of life. They do art therapy, or music therapy, but acting would be another one. And yeah, I’m delighted that you got a good mix of it. And the  poetry and the boring stuff as well. Like I did those exams too that was good as well because I learned the basics of the breathing and whatever and helped me in life. And then when I went on to drama school in London, you know, do you still do bits of that


Dr Sabina Brennan  09:21

Did you go to Rada?


Norma Sheahan  09:23

I went to Rada.


Dr Sabina Brennan  09:24

Wow. So guys, who don’t really know like RADA is the créme de la créme really.  Oh, I’m so jealous. And did you go full time?


Norma Sheahan  09:32

Yeah, it was three years full time


Dr Sabina Brennan  09:34

Oh my god. Was it heaven? What was it like?


Norma Sheahan  09:38

Well, I mean, just getting through the auditions was tricky because they see 1000s and they pick thirty every year. I don’t know what it is like now but back in the day, they didn’t really focus much on the voice overs or the filming. It was very theatrical, which I thought was not great in that they didn’t prepare us for the real world. We should have had a class and accountancy to manage our  ourselves of businesses. We should have had voice over work. We should have had way more filming work because that’s the way work was going. I mean, I had amazing three years it was like most best therapy ever. But, you came out of it thinking that you could live off theater. And like the people who’ve worked in theater 12 months of the year could not live off theater. It does not pay and you’re not told that. You’re not told that.That you can’t go and have kids and a mortgage and have a life if you’re a theatre actor it’s not possible


Dr Sabina Brennan  10:23

I think it’s different now though, isn’t it?


Norma Sheahan  10:25

No it’s worse isn’t Worse, effing worse


Dr Sabina Brennan  10:29

Worse – oh my god


Norma Sheahan  10:29

I got offered Oh could you do this play for 1000 I was like a jeez whatever


Dr Sabina Brennan  10:33

No, no, I don’t mean the theater. I mean, RADA


Norma Sheahan  10:35

Oh Sorry


Dr Sabina Brennan  10:35

I’m sure RADA do some film acting now


Dr Sabina Brennan  10:38

Oh yeah, theatre Yeah, any sort of performing art Oh yeah.


Norma Sheahan  10:41

I might as well finsih that one. They said 1000 euro and I was thinking jeeze, you know you know whatever I’ll weigh it up see if that covers child care, petrol all the rest of it looks good. Sounds good. No, it was 1000 euro for five weeks work which might be good if you were living at home with mammy and you know after tax whatever that would be. I was just like, Are you asking someone in their 40s to do five weeks work someone that’s been working at a trade for 20 years I was just going I don’t know what to say to you actually I don’t know what to say


Dr Sabina Brennan  11:10

Yeah, yeah. Actually before we started the podcast myself and Emily were just chatting there I mean, the amount of people who expect me to work for nothing, I mean, you think you leave that behind when you’re in acting and you do it at the start right? So I think I was about 32 when I started to act professionally and I was happy enough I had two kids so that same sort of scenario mortgage all the rest and I did a lot of student films and stuff like that and you do those for nothing and then there was this like profit share theater. There was never a profit. So essentially you worked for nothing you paid for your own costumes you know like literally it costs you to work on those shows


Norma Sheahan  11:47

and the films as well doing the short films for people I would still help someone out if they wanted to get a leg up and they wanted to make a short film over a weekend I will turn up and I’ll help them and there’s no money involved and you’ll do it just like you know a favor


Dr Sabina Brennan  11:59



Norma Sheahan  12:00

But if they come back then and ask you to help them with PR and stuff like that you just go look Are you having a laugh now you better send me a picture to post them if you expect me to spend a couple more hours on they’re going to go to this festival that festival the other festival


Dr Sabina Brennan  12:12

Yeah. Yeah,


Norma Sheahan  12:13

sorry you want to go to the festival buy the ticket and pay for your hotel travel as well. Just going hang on No, I gave you a weekend my life.


Dr Sabina Brennan  12:21

I gave you something Yeah, you see and I thought you know, that would change but it’s quite the same. You know, I give talks and those talks take a long time to prepare and I do get paid for them thankfully and I have an agency, I do most of it through an agency because it’s just unbelievable with people they just expect you to do it for nothing. And you kind of go It’s like they think ah well it’sonly an hour and you kind of go well actually no it’s not only an hour it’s been all the years I went to university and it’s all the time that it takes me to put together I do a top class talks and that all takes time and I do a lot of pro bono work


Norma Sheahan  12:54

even just showing washing your face like and getting there


Dr Sabina Brennan  12:57

and putting your makeup on and when you’re doing that you’re not doing anything else. And I do pro bono work exactly like that. And you know, I have a group of charities that are related to dementia, multiple sclerosis, migraine, those kind of things. And I do a lot that way and happy to do that. But like people, I don’t know randomly in some businesses expect you to just show up


Norma Sheahan  13:19

come here speaking of dementia right, and you being all knowing about the brain and stuff like that. I’m doing a show shortly opening in the next couple of days. Shirley Valentine. I have to speak for an hour and 40 minutes and I’m in the middle of rehearsing and learning the lines. Do you have any tips for me because I thought I knew how to learn lines. But there seems to be obviously it’s probably more difficult when you get older. But it seems to be about focusing being in the moment, being in now, getting rid of every distraction, reading it numerous times, listening to it numerous times, then putting it into the mouth numerous times saying that I still get up in rehearsal and it just comes out my hole literally, and it’s to try and stop just seeing it and then it has to be literally in your like you’d say abcdefg hijk lmnop to get the emotions across. I’d forgotten because I hadn’t taken on a part this big with so yeah, you might only have two scenes in a day, you might have nothing The next day, then you might have three scenes The next day, you might have nothing The next day, then you four lines of a day. So your grand so you can fit that. It’s a long time since I’ve done something so gigantic.


Dr Sabina Brennan  14:18

And it’s an amazing play. And if you get a chance go and see it. It’s an in the Gaeity 12 to 16 October


Norma Sheahan  14:25



Dr Sabina Brennan  14:25

Gaeity 12th to 16th October,


Norma Sheahan  14:27

but then it’s going to tour the country anyway. So you have to


Dr Sabina Brennan  14:30

Oh, right. Okay, brilliant. The thing is Shirley Valentine. It’s an incredible part. That was my audition piece for the Gaeity School of acting.


Dr Sabina Brennan  14:40



Dr Sabina Brennan  14:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hello wall. She talks to the walls basically doesn’t she? I loved it. It was my dream to get to play Shirley Valentine. I know at the time like that was my audition piece and I would have only been in my 20s you know, 26 – 27 but Willie Russell is a fabulous playwright as well.


Norma Sheahan  14:56

I had a zoom call with him yesterday. He He wrote Blood Brothers as well.


Norma Sheahan  15:02

We zoomed with him because he knew we’re doing in Ireland and he knows that I can’t do the Liverpool accent. I have no intention of boring people. Oh, you’re not doing the Liverpool? No, I’m not. So he’s really happy for it to be set in Cork because that’s like, the biggest city in Ireland. So he came on zoom for two hours to help us. There was about 20 words that he wanted to make Irish.


Dr Sabina Brennan  15:02

That’s right


Dr Sabina Brennan  15:21

 Oh, cool.


Norma Sheahan  15:22

So he’s allowed us to adapt it to.


Dr Sabina Brennan  15:25

Oh that’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. And I can still see her face. The woman who played the part in the film because it is a film folks.


Norma Sheahan  15:33

Pauline ….


Dr Sabina Brennan  15:34

Pauline Collins. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she’d lovely dimples. And she was just brilliant. And I always remember that line. CliTorUs


Norma Sheahan  15:40

Clitoris. I think it’s nicer that way could even be a name. High ye clitoris, wait till I tell ya clitoris


Dr Sabina Brennan  15:50

She’d only ever read the word. So obviously, she said it out loud is just brilliant. It’s a lovely piece of work. And at the time, it was really very novel. Do you know what I mean?. Because I mean, that was early 80s. Would it have been?


Norma Sheahan  16:01

Late 80s, well mid080s it was all about discovering the clitoris, you know, it wasn’t all wham bam, Thank you, ma’am. And about just finding in your mid 40s that you’re, you know, your kids have moved on, and you’ve got nothing and you’re, you’re institutionalized by the sink and you’re afraid it


Dr Sabina Brennan  16:16

she used to literally be talking to the walls?


Norma Sheahan  16:18

Yeah, yeah.


Dr Sabina Brennan  16:19

And then she goes to go on a holiday? And she does?


Norma Sheahan  16:21

She does.


Dr Sabina Brennan  16:22

Yeah, that’s it. It’s a fabulous play. Like it really is. And it’s a fabulous part. But I don’t envy you the hour and a half of script, exactly like that. I worked in television and soap. And you might have 16 scenes in a week. But you have time in between scenes to learn your lines and know them. And it is true. Like, you can’t act, you can’t be a character. If you’re looking for lines, the lines have to be there. And then you can be them. There’s nothing worse I don’t know about you, like you know the way sometimes, you know when you’re not getting it because you can hear yourself saying yes, that’s when you’re not in it. I never really was fond of the word you know, in this as an actor you’re performing and I said no, I’m not performing. Someone who sings perform someone who dances performs in a way when you’re an actor you’re being if you’re performing, it’s false. If you’re being you’re in there in it, you don’t always get it is one sometimes you can hear yourself and you kind of know you’re not quite there. And that’s why you have to have the lines.


Norma Sheahan  17:23

Only like some shows you come off and go oh, god tonight was a bit stilted. A bit technical. Yeah. And then other times just go with that just felt great from start to finish.


Dr Sabina Brennan  17:31

Yeah, it does and I suppose that’s the little piece of magic?


Norma Sheahan  17:35

How does the brain work to? I don’t know


Dr Sabina Brennan  17:37

to do that.


Norma Sheahan  17:38

 Like, I’m getting I’m getting there. But like, it’s you know, and I will, it will be perfect. I probably,


Dr Sabina Brennan  17:43

yeah, I suppose I guess what you got to do? Yeah, cuz I mean, I give our long talks. But the thing is, I have the freedom to change lines. And to go with the flow, I don’t have a set script for my talks, I have set topics that I cover, and I have slides and I know what I’m going on to and some of them becomes set because they roll out. And you know, maybe you said the one time you go that really works. And you can kind of say it again. But I have huge freedom. And that’s why I like my talks to be that way that especially if there’s people in the audience, and you can see when people are nodding, and you can see when it’s a moment an ‘aha’ moment for them. And so you’ll give it a little more. And you’ll say yeah, you know what I mean, and so I like to be very free in my talks. And that allows you to improvise, but the thing with theatre and with plays is you can’t you’ve got to stick with the script, I guess the best trick would be to because it’s so long is to break it down into…. and the play is sort of broken down in that way


Norma Sheahan  18:39

you’ve scenes


Dr Sabina Brennan  18:40

Yeah, so it’s probably is to see it nearly as multiple different pieces rather than one long piece. So you do this piece and then your brain can get rid of that piece. And then your brain doesn’t have to think oh, I have to remember, an hour left. Now Actually, I only have to remember this next little five minute segment. And this next little. I’d say that kind of might be a good way for your brain not to get overwhelmed or really for you to get in the way of your brain, thinking you’ll be overwhelmed.


Norma Sheahan  19:08

And I suppose the brain as well, you know, simple thing of going for a walk and getting some air and coming back to it. The brain does get exhausted, doesn’t it


Dr Sabina Brennan  19:17

Oh yeah it gets exhausted, and you have to give it a break. And that’s the same like I’ve done stuff around kids studying for exams, and coming up to Leaving Cert and their kind of studying all day right through to te night. IIt’s pointless. Like it really is pointless because there reaches a point where nothing is going to go in, you are far better off taking a break. And one thing that I often say is actually to take exercises at lunchtime, There’s a natural slump in the afternoon, all of us kind of feel as there’s a dip in our alertness. And one way to counteract that is actually to take exercise at lunchtime. And if you actually take exercise at lunchtime, you can learn better, you can remember more and you can focus better. So like that say if you’re kind of working on and learning and actually if I think about it now I didn’t know about it at the time, but when I used to be learning my scripts for the show, I would learn them at home and learn them and learn them and learn them. And then I would go for a walk. And I would say them in my head. And similarly, I would say them in the shower,


Norma Sheahan  20:11

or driving is a great one as well.


Dr Sabina Brennan  20:13

Yeah, those kinds of things. And I would kind of go through them and that, yeah, I mean, that is it. Yeah, repetition and trusting that your brain knows it. And that you just don’t get in the way because if the stress hormones get released, that will get in the way of you finding the words,


Norma Sheahan  20:30

and it’s not brain surgery, you know, it’s not life or death. It’s close enough, but it’s not. And I do remember when I was studying for the junior cert, I loved studying for the junior cert I, my granny had just died. And I went over to her house. And I put my nine subjects in different corners of the room, and the hall and the kitchen, I made out how many days I’d left, and I was going yeah, that many days, which means that many half hours left before the junior starts. And I put all those tickets into a box. And I go over and I pick a ticket out of the raffle. And that meant I to do 30 minutes of music. And I think I then went to the music. And there was another ticket in there to do something else. Well the excitement.


Dr Sabina Brennan  21:06

Ah, that’s brilliant


Norma Sheahan  21:07

of going through it. And knowing that history was over there by the telly, music was out by the coat stand. And yes, I could visualize everything and did it in little chunks. And yet,


Dr Sabina Brennan  21:20

the chunking is an absolutely brilliant way to do it. So the surprise bit for me there is that you pulled it out of a hat and surprise yourself, which is lovely, I would have that organized brain and I would have had all that organized. And I did it for my sons as well, you know, and I would say right, that’s what you have to do for geography. That’s what’s there for history. You’re going to do that today, because there’s only X number of active days left and I would figure all that out. And but actually, obviously, then that will work really nicely for Shirley Valentine as well just put different parts of it in different parts of the room.


Norma Sheahan  21:50

Actually, sorry, I’ve done a bit of that already. I cut the script up into the 30 something pages. I had the script as well. But I  printed it out, 36 pages or whatever. And I put one in my bra when I’d be going down to, just picking a random page and stick it in my bran and walking down to the shop and back and pull out and have a look Then another one I was going for, someone was driving me somewhere and I took I just didn’t know which page would be just random obviously have to put them back into order.


Dr Sabina Brennan  22:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah,


Norma Sheahan  22:12

like that.


Norma Sheahan  22:13

That’s what I did, actually, a couple of weeks ago was to just get started and get familiarize. And yeah, I’m probably at some point here we go back to Yeah, and


Dr Sabina Brennan  22:20

you’re kind of doing it you kind of know yourself, what works for yourself. It’s just been a while, as you say, since you’ve kind of done and doing a one woman show. That’s Well, in one way I think that’s kind of empowering because you’re totally in control. So you’re not dependent on anyone else’s performance


Norma Sheahan  22:37

inside the door of the cooker or the fridge, I’m going to put a little list. Worst case scenario, I go over for a top up of the wine and I go, Oh, Jesus, there we are. Back we go.


Dr Sabina Brennan  22:45

Yeah, yeah, you could, but sometimes having that then can put you off.


Norma Sheahan  22:49

That’s true. That’s true. That’s true. How many books have you written?


Dr Sabina Brennan  22:53

Two Beating brain fog? Yeah. And 100 days to a younger brain?


Norma Sheahan  22:58

You’re just legend? How do you get your brain over a book? How do you keep the whole book in your head trying to create it?


Dr Sabina Brennan  23:04

Oh, yeah, it’s a bit like that. It’s a bit like what you’re talking about. It’s kind of a bit backwards. First, I suppose you know, there’s a story that you want to tell. And then you know that there’s really important key messages, key points that you have to tell. For me, then it’s again, probably a bit like acting as well. You have to find a way in. So you have to find a way to tell the story. Do you know what I mean? Because, yeah, these are science based books, but you want to tell a story. And I learned like, I think my second book is better than my first book. The first book has all the content, but I didn’t trust myself enough. Whereas this one, I went, Okay, I know how to do this. It’s got more anecdotes, and it’s more casual, has all the science in it. And I think it’s an easier read because of it. But you still have to find a way and you kind of have to find a structure to build it on. So you’ll know that you have to have a structure to the play you’re writing. There has to be highs and lows because if you deliver Shirley Valentine all at one level, it’s the most boring piece of drivel. So part of the story is the highs and the lows and the emotional piece and the humor and all that


Dr Sabina Brennan  24:11

in editor thing because I know you’re seeing some of his scientific push. Still people are going to put your book down and pick up a different book if you don’t grasp them. And like the way when you’re watching a film, if there isn’t a twist or a turn or a hope every four minutes apparently you know people change the channel or turn Wow, wow. You’re involved in your book to keep an


Dr Sabina Brennan  24:28

eye Yeah, but they don’t really do that. So basically, I had to for this one, I needed to find an inn. I knew I’d had to be there. I knew I wanted to write about hormones and brain fog. I knew I need to write about autoimmune disease and pain and brain fog. And then I knew I needed to write about like the lifestyle factors like nutrition and exercise. So that was fine. That was kind of my chapters. But I also knew that I need to tell people what brain fog is. And then I also wanted to empower them so that they understood their own brain fog, not just to say something Oh, I have Brain fog, I wanted to be able to say to them, well look, if you have issues making decisions, that’s actually related to your frontal lobes, your executive function, here’s things that you can do to work on that specific aspect. Or this is exactly what you can say to your doctor so that you’re not just going in with this vague sort of, Oh, my brain doesn’t seem to be doing what it should any more. Well, for me, what I needed to do was find a hook to sort of hang it on. And actually, for me, it came with the art of war. It’s the Art of War by Sue, I think, I knew how to pronounce it when I was doing the audio book. And I included quotes from him. And it’s fabulous. So I have one section, which is knowledge. That’s the first section. So that’s knowledge about the book. And he says, you know, if you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 battles. If you know yourself, but not the enemy, for every victory gained, you’ll also suffer defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. Matt gave me the hook because I was giving them knowledge about the condition, which is the enemy, but knowledge about themselves. What is it about you that is kind of contributing to that and so the four sections, I think in the book, I have to kind of look at them again, our knowledge, power, change, and future. So knowledge is power, and you can change your future. And so I was kind of able to slot them everything in under that, once I kind of had that. And then I suppose as well, people like patterns or brains like patterns. So each chapter follows the same pattern. There’s an anecdote sort of at the beginning about someone’s experience, then there’s a brief explanation, then there’s a bit about what you can do about it. And then people get into that rhythm. I suppose. That’s it, but it’s very different to writing a fiction book, I think it’s more about keeping it accessible so people can see themselves in it. And actually that’s the biggest compliment I’ve got about that book from people emailing them saying to me, I can see myself on every page and I just had a great that’s it


Dr Sabina Brennan  27:09

because the hormone thing with the menopause was it hormone brain fog with menopause more than


Dr Sabina Brennan  27:15

well no right across with hormonal changes, fluctuations or imbalance so you can get brain fog with BMT you can get it during pregnancy baby brain you know post pregnancy


Dr Sabina Brennan  27:25

coming off the boob is a scary one as well.


Dr Sabina Brennan  27:28

Is this I didn’t breastfeed so I actually didn’t know that I know


Dr Sabina Brennan  27:31

it because it’s basically a delayed generally you get postnatal depression yeah it can be held off onto if you suddenly come off the ball when you don’t gradually do it right you just get thrown into this madness and yeah my dear friend who was running around naked throwing plates at people and draw to be okay well don’t up and you know, and luckily she told me her situation just as I was delving into whenever I can


Sabina Brennan  27:55

Yeah, it’s amazing that if you know something is coming, that sounds more like mental health for you know, rather than brain health or brain fog, but I can sort of imagine and see why but it’s just the change and it’s the estrogen job really in menopause, which is really particularly awful, perimenopause and getting there and that’s one key reason I wrote the book because I think so many women because of the age that happens out there may be dealing with parents who have dementia and they may be concerned that they’re getting themselves and I just wanted to kind of get but no this is brain fog. This is something that you can do something about this is absolutely categorically not dementia It is very different. It’s reversible it’s occurring because of x y Zed


Dr Sabina Brennan  28:35

I agree it’s very connected to nutrition as well because I did of course nutrition and I would say my mind is much clearer if I’m having like alkalizing foods and avoiding you know the wheat and dairy and stuff and even a few years ago I did kind of a yeast infection diet and I during the die off period I have a lot of brain fog which I felt was like almost like a mini chemotherapy because


Dr Sabina Brennan  28:55

so what you mean the die off period when you’re coming off yeast,


Dr Sabina Brennan  28:59

what’s called the Candida diet to reduce these so into our fold sugars so I think the body is expelling all this toxins from all the yeast in you to get the right balance back and then you get this die off period where you feel you’re burning a fever and stuff and you get brain fog a lot of brain fog as well. Okay, so no my dream


Sabina Brennan  29:18

no i don’t know i mean i you know, there’s a huge relationship between the Gosh, and your brain. And there’s a huge relationship obviously the fuel for your brain is the food that you eat. So like rubbish in rubbish out. The best evidence is for Mediterranean diet in terms of brain health. So basically lots of colorful fruit and vege oily fish, nuts, olive oil, really healthy diet, no processed foods, and I know myself. That is when I feel the best. That’s fine. I feel the sharpest. That’s when I don’t even have to worry about my waist. And I’ve tons of energy and all the rest. I don’t know why I fall off. It’s sometimes like why do we fall off anything you It’s


Dr Sabina Brennan  30:00

really I mean, we told that I just went on bisque thing the story and I was, I just felt Yeah, life is tough to be I should have stayed on her feet, I just just went out the window only olive oils may have candles and sponges and all rest of it, and it was the exact time when you needed it. But yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  30:15

I know and it’s really funny creatures really in that way that we, you see, the thing is, habits never disappear. So bad habits or unhealthy habits never disappear. And it makes sense for habits not to disappear because you don’t want to forget how to tie your shoelaces just because you spend six months in flip flops over the summer you know what I mean? That’s habitual behavior. So it makes sense for them not to disappear so they’re always underneath there and so we would have been certainly my age I’m older than you but would have been brought up with very unhealthy diets actually, to be honest as I was kids loads away bread, cornflakes for breakfast, white bread samples were probably an orange colored cheese for lunch and then dinner was potatoes and a little bit of meat if you got it and most of us hated our vegetables we really had crap diets. So then for us introducing a healthy diet is introducing a new habit a new way of eating and I know I feel great when I do that etc but like that we know that all habits resurface when you have disrupted sleep and when you’re stressed that’s when they resurface and that’s what the last 18 months has been is just chronic stress and it takes work it’s cognitively demanding to introduce a new habit and I think that’s probably it’s so many of us have experienced brain fog during the whole time. It just feels like that it’s just hard it’s just too hard to just do the day to day stuff without having to do that extra work of the diving Of course if we did that it would work out well but you know what I am kind of a little bit with people who say Hold on a second we are dealing with a lot let’s kind of do what we can deal with because I’ve gone up and down now during the pandemic like I’ve gone skinny and heavy and skin well not skinny skinny is is a relative term. But when my book came out like I knew I had to be pinned for that vanity worked there because I knew I was going to be on the telly and so that was fine but then I kind of fell back and gained it again and I sort of been opened down but I also have had other stressors you know one of my kids was seriously ill a couple of months ago um you know this and we should talk about this My house is up for sale


Dr Sabina Brennan  32:26

is it still optimal


Dr Sabina Brennan  32:27

yeah yeah it is still fucking hooks oh no exit podcast I can do that yeah, yeah that running around and I mean my house is always tidy unless I’m madly rushing to put on makeup then I can create the illusion of a bomb explosion in my bedroom in the two minutes but generally speaking it is but when you know someone’s coming to walk around your house and may open your heart press or open you’re saying like you literally can spend hours cleaning and that’s what I’ve been doing anytime people come to view the house


Dr Sabina Brennan  32:58

well you were very lucky because we sold our house in the height of COVID so people were told you will only get one visit right if you put down your deposit you may get another one all the visits were 30 minutes apart so the house can be cleaned. I think they’d wear gloves coming in and so it was very intense


Dr Sabina Brennan  33:14

and did you have to clean out the estate agents do a bit of a recurring what they didn’t


Dr Sabina Brennan  33:17

touch anything and they were given gloves to Yeah, so that was the house was totally aired while they were in there so it was really really clinical but the beauty of that is that it sold in a week wow but yes what I was also told is they have one visit so during that visit they are allowed into the attic they are allowed into everything in the house yeah they’re allowed to open everything which normally on the first visit you could shove stuff into the attic and just yeah the attic had to be sure house as well. So I just was like right, let’s throw our lives away. So I just got rid of so much stuff.


Dr Sabina Brennan  33:48

We got rid of a load of stuff during COVID Yeah, as well. Which was quite therapeutic.


Dr Sabina Brennan  33:53

Yeah, no, it’s still stressful. But I have to say we probably have the easiest sale you could imagine June


Sabina Brennan  33:59

Wow. No, our house went on the market in April. We had Yeah, we won’t talk about the first estate agents we had but needless to say shouldn’t bring anyone in.


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:09

Okay, yeah, I’ve had a few dodgy experiences over the year with a woman where we follow with them and we sold it ourselves years ago and they back to us and said oh do you mind if we put a sold sign outside the house for you know what I actually remember going grant Yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:24

so they were pretending they sold your house we’re also


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:27

looking at another house and they’re saying we really want to see we really want to see it and they were like no no we can’t get you to see what we want to see this other house and they were selling our house the fella selling our house had both this other house and had pizza Wouldn’t it they were selling the house as well and we wanted to see that house for moving but oh that’s illegal


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:44

I don’t think they’re allowed to do that.


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:46

But I’m not saying they were the cause Yeah, anyway we


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:48

got another guy in who’s great man. He’s brought loads people in to see the house so


Dr Sabina Brennan  34:53

it’s you know, with all your brain gurus, do you know where to park all that stuff and to prioritize and like not having mental breakdowns.


Dr Sabina Brennan  35:00

Oh god no I had like, as I say to everybody, I’m a human being first like Jesus, I know what to do doesn’t mean I can do it or I do it all the time. At the moment like I’m struggling desperately with my sleep, I give talks on how to promote good sleep. I’m struggling with my own sleep at the moment, but I do know and I’m working on it and I do know that I have to fix that mental health to be honest Actually, I did a podcast on this a couple of weeks ago that I’d been trying and failing with diets lately and that’s not like me like I really determined it’s a bit like that actor thing you know, you can go all focus blinkers on, this is what I’m doing and that’s normally the way I would be with diets and exercise. If I want to lose weight, I could have done in like two weeks exercise three times a day 800 calories and lose a bunch really quickly. And I’ve tried that the last few months and I just keep falling off the wagon you know, and that’s just not like me and it was only when I was doing a piece for one of these booster shots that I realized, you know, I really have had disrupted sleep for the last few months for several reasons. And to cut a long story short, if you have disrupted sleep, you can eat up to 600 more calories the next day. Yeah, and a few other issues like that. So actually what I’ve decided to do now is I’m not focusing on dieting I’m focusing on getting my sleep back on track and if that gets back on track then I should be able to kind of and I started back at the gym yesterday and I should start to be able but I have a problem is I developed a rash sort of last year during COVID I think my brain is allergic to my body Do you know I always get these things like itchy stuff and


Dr Sabina Brennan  36:36

like eczema eczema


Dr Sabina Brennan  36:38

no it’s not like an exam of this this thing is literally just there’s nothing there I’ve had biopsies taken my skin just gets mad he and you can see them there I just aged till I dig a hole in it


Dr Sabina Brennan  36:48

and then that leads and Julie’s wheat and dairy are you off to wheat and dairy?


Dr Sabina Brennan  36:51

Well you know what I am back on the Legion dairy but I go off again But no, this started like April 2020. So I actually was eating quite well then at that point, it’s


Dr Sabina Brennan  37:00

probably you’re just trying to close your own skin then you’re trying to


Dr Sabina Brennan  37:03

lay down I don’t know what it is I just Yeah, like my husband got his hair cut the other day and he came back and he said can talk to you have to go publish our I get that feeling the itchy hair off me is what he said. And I said Well, welcome to my world because that’s what my body feels like all day, every day at the moment is just either like you’ve been in the attic or you’ve been at the hairdresser’s it’s just mad,


Dr Sabina Brennan  37:24

horrible. I’ve done three day water fast if you just take water, just water, maybe maybe a little bit of Himalayan salt or something like that. And what it does actually is Yes, you’ve got you get the brain fog part of it. But you start to I’ve never been enlightened. But you start to have this amazing awareness and space and your senses go up and your snoring goes down, and your teaching goes away. And your vision improves. And it’s just all these yeast attacking you that are they whatever, whatever is going on in your body, or your body just gets an old hug.


Dr Sabina Brennan  37:57

Probably a last hug before you die of starvation. Yeah, no, we’ve gone into another zone, I think Yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  38:03

my friend just don’t up to 14 days. And like, you know, Jesus did 40 days in the desert. And that is a thing. Nobody wants to do that. But apparently you should do a three or a five day one a few times a year. It’s basically stop breaking down sugar and you move into breaking down the free radicals. So you’re breaking down the toxic sells your fat burning. So you’re breaking down the toxic sales. Now it’s not for weight class, because you’ll put it on straightaway back off. Yeah, it’s not it’s not a diet. It’s just for like, it’s like a mini chemo detox.


Dr Sabina Brennan  38:30

Yeah, I kind of think we so much junk. And we actually eat too much food. You know, like a lot of these blue zones where people live long and live healthily. And with sharp brains, they tend to eat very little, you know, they just as much as as they need. And we weigh more than we eat.


Dr Sabina Brennan  38:49

all the religions have one day fast a week. So that would right, you’d eat your dinner on a Thursday night. And you wouldn’t break the fast breakfast till the morning. So every Friday it would be just water but sure we turned it into fishy and fake. It’s Friday day. And you know, yeah, if he were to be diligent about it, you’d have one day a week where your system would re


Dr Sabina Brennan  39:11

just get a chance to Yeah, I mean, I did the 800 fast. And that’s eating 800 and I’m not advocating any of these. This is just us chatting away here. I did the 800 fast which is Michael Mosley I think it’s I don’t know anyways, he is a doctor and it’s basically you eat 800 calories a day and you try and eat it in a relatively short periods and the longer you can leave between your so and it’s actually quite easy to do. If you eat just healthy basic food. 800 calories is not that small. Oh yeah, it’s 800 calories, and you can have as much green vegetables as you want. So you can really kind of fill up with that. I did it in an advantage relatively pleasant. I didn’t find it that difficult. And so you’d say maybe have your dinner at seven o’clock, and then not eat your breakfast till 11 the next day and so your eating period, and then as you sort of progress through that one then You go into what he calls his five, two. So it’s five days of normal eating two days of 800 fast. And that’s similar


Dr Sabina Brennan  40:07

enough to the Buddhists or the water fasts or whatever. You find what suits you. My husband loves to stone, because he just does intermittent fasting. So he eats between six or seven hours of the day and he fasts for the rest. And yeah, to be


Dr Sabina Brennan  40:18

honest, there’s a lot to be said for not eating late at night, and not drinking late at night. You see, that’s the problem, though, is if you have a couple of games, then they are willpower goals. The frontal lobes are shut down the willpower goals, and you start picking and starting to erase all sorts of stuff. Yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  40:32

I might pick your brain on of teenagers that they haven’t done the junior search. But it’s interesting that your son did medicine that he or he did, yes. And you managed to give him a timetable to get him there.


Dr Sabina Brennan  40:43

So yeah, yeah, we have a podcast we did I actually interviewed this particular song, because which one on another Listen, yeah, he’s dyslexic. And it was season two. Yeah, so Darren was dyslexic, so he never any problems, reading written language was a big issue for him. So thinking and writing at the same time is really, really problematic for him. He also doesn’t see sequences or patterns, he could figure out, you know, what seven times six was, but he couldn’t see the pattern in a timetable, it’s really hard for us to get our heads round, because you can see us and reading a regular clock, or even the seasons, or the months of the year, those kinds of things were really challenging. And this is a really smart kid. So then organization was really challenging for him. And so yeah, by necessity, I kind of stood in and planned out his exams for him, literally, because the school were useless. The schools operate on data and information that’s 2030 years old, they used to kind of be trying to teach him how to spell that wasn’t his issue. It really wasn’t. But anyway, yeah, I organize stuff. I did out exactly what you were talking about doing yourself. I actually got onto the Department of Education website, and figured out because that’s what it used to be available there anyway. And literally, what are they looking for? What are they marking? What are you going to get a job, really the school and the teachers should probably tell the kids and and I would say to right? Okay, in geography, you’re going to have three questions on this subject. And for each of those, we’re looking for 10 points, three of those points have to be about x, y, Zed. And literally, we work together and we worked out answers that spoke to the actual questions, because it’s just a game. I mean, to be honest, it is just a game. Those exam results don’t mean anything other than you’re good at giving the right answers and those results.


Dr Sabina Brennan  42:33

What year did he do the leaving search? Because I think they’re a bit better now they do they do are the exam structure and they show you Well, if you’ve broken that up into three points, you would have got three marks instead of one mark. Right? Okay. So


Dr Sabina Brennan  42:42

it’s a while ago now. Yeah. So that was when he did his junior cert, is Leaving Cert, he went to the Institute, and they were much better they do break it down according to how you study. And so he did that as also their


Dr Sabina Brennan  42:54

places No, as well. It’s to do sort of dare dare stands for something to do with dyslexia where they there’s certain places and each course in college, given to someone who needed nicknames with dyslexia. And so


Sabina Brennan  43:06

yeah, so then he did an undergrad degree in biochemistry and Immunology. And then he did a degree in medicine. And yeah, he’s flying is flying now,


Dr Sabina Brennan  43:15

that is really working the system and it’s working the system. Yeah, I


Dr Sabina Brennan  43:18

mean, that’s what I just said to him. This system doesn’t measure your intelligence level appropriately. But there’s no other way. We can either give up, we can be broken by the system, or we can just play the system. And it was awful. And I was, you know, in a way it was a big strain on our relationship because I couldn’t be mother who was Oh, I know it’s awful sweetheart. Kamera give you a hug. I was mother who was cracking the whip going, if you don’t study this now for the next 20 minutes, will be thrown behind. And like I literally did, like I was in the room, I would send him off and say right, you got to go learn that come back to me with the 10 points. I’ll examine you the 10 points. How did


Dr Sabina Brennan  43:57

you study in college them when you weren’t there to kind of set up while we were there? So


Dr Sabina Brennan  44:01

in college, yeah, he did manage the course was very confusing. So where I helped was looking at the course and breaking it down from him saying, okay, that’s what you need to study. So he was well able, and because he did the sciency ones, you know, a lot of it was learning facts and stuff. So it wasn’t about writing essays and pulling that kind of stuff together. So that kind of did help immensely. I think what people don’t understand when you have something like dyslexia, or other form of learning difficulty is that it is the exhaustion it is the cognitive load


Dr Sabina Brennan  44:32

that you can’t watch so much harder than someone who work three times


Dr Sabina Brennan  44:35

harder than someone else. And so just for him, just listening in the lectures was exhausting. So whilst others would be maybe go to the pub for an hour or two and then come back and do a study. He would come home and have to go to bed for three or four hours and then get up and try and study. That’s what’s not accounted for. Yeah, they might give you 15 minutes extra in an exam because you’re slower writing. But really what it is is you have to work through Four times harder than anybody else.


Dr Sabina Brennan  45:03

You use a lot of creativity and improvisation and acting there within dealing with parenting I find I have to improvise every day in every situation. There’s no manual is there no frickin manual so it’s just constantly coming up with something exhilarating and different. That’s just the I mean my kids a bit older now but just safe. It’s just I don’t know trying to get them to bed at a certain time dangling carrots this that the other. Something will work for a few weeks, a bit of reverse psychology a bit of, I don’t know, something to stimulate the older older years now. And my identical twin girls are Oh my god. Yeah, they’re great. They’re 14 Wow. And wow, in the younger daughter is 11. So there’s two and a bit years. So she’s


Dr Sabina Brennan  45:45

Gosh, what was that like having twins?


Dr Sabina Brennan  45:49

I didn’t know any better. But it was very hard in that I didn’t get a lot of sleep. And there was no time for googoo Gaga. I love you stuff. So it was just a conveyor belt. So yeah, picked up the one that was either choking or washing themselves or needed burping and you just neglected the one who was happy. It was until I had my third child that I kind of went oh, I actually I think I


Dr Sabina Brennan  46:12

don’t have to put this baby down to pick up the other one. Why


Dr Sabina Brennan  46:16

is this love? Like, oh, yeah, so sorry. It was just friendship. I didn’t know till I had a third one. what it would be like to have a baby.


Dr Sabina Brennan  46:29

Yeah, I can’t imagine. I mean, I my first one was tough. I have a lovely interview with Melissa Hogan boom, this season. She’s Episode Two. She’s written a book called The motherhood complex. Yes, he keeps it out here are fabulous. Because what I loved about that was she was a professional, you know, with BBC science journalist and a great career and really excellent career didn’t great, become pregnant, and had her baby and thought, Oh, this is really hard. This is tough. I’m kind of struggling here and had a second baby and just felt like that she was just firefighting all the time, just trying to keep them alive, trying to stop this one hitting that one trying to how am I going to cook? Like the book really is about how it changes your identity. But I could totally identify with that. Because I would always see myself as a very competent person. I have perfectionist tendencies, which I try to dampen down as often as possible, because it’s just the worst thing. But I thought that I would sail through motherhood, and then sort of be like you they’re saying, like Darren was a challenging baby. And I feel awful saying that, because he throws back at me sometimes like, Oh, yeah, I was a tough baby. But he was he never slept. He cried all the time.


Dr Sabina Brennan  47:43

You were probably a pain in the hole as well at some certain stages as a mother, like,


Dr Sabina Brennan  47:47

oh god, I was dreadful. dreadful. I put my hands up on that PMT. I mean, I literally could have, I try not to, because guilt serves no purpose. And I have apologized to my kids. But like some of the things, I shouted at them, and did when I was PMT. were two young kids running around the house, or the guilt I feel when I see their faces, you know, but then it got to the point where say, well, Mommy is like this, just go to your room and shut the door. Because essentially, Mommy is


Dr Sabina Brennan  48:16

crazy. I just get out the car and walk along the road a few times. And they’d be annoyed then because you know, they’re late then for where they want to get to, or they’re wondering where their mother is walking, but I’ve just, instead of shouting at them, I remove myself from the situation.


Dr Sabina Brennan  48:28

See, I wish I had that sense. back then.


Dr Sabina Brennan  48:31

I do it for selfish reasons. Because if I have conversation with someone, it takes me up to 48 hours to shake off a comment I make to somebody or a mean thing or whatever. So I’m doing it to be selfish.


Dr Sabina Brennan  48:42

Yeah, but that’s smart. That’s huge self awareness to know to do that, because I would have been like that. My temper would go I would say something. They’re not just the kids, but like, you know, when I was younger, I don’t do it anymore. And then like that, the way you just described it as perfect 48 hours to shake it off. Sometimes it would take me even longer it would just keep going round and round and round in my head. Why did I say that? I shouldn’t have said that. Oh my god and probably the person that you said it was? Yeah, you know, gone over their head humor if


Dr Sabina Brennan  49:13

you careful on the other hand is they know you crack a lot, which I think I’m hilarious. Of course I crack jokes and be a bit cynical with people. Most people know me and don’t take it seriously. But it’s the odd time someone comes back and going. Oh, when I said go f yourself I actually know I was like I might just say something like I forgot for yourself. there literally like she told me to fuck off with myself. Yeah, so I have to be kidding. Obviously to be more extreme than that maybe or something. That’s a RMIT something like or sugar Nutri or the Yogi’s pig in the bladder and I might be saying they think the person is so beautiful. So it’s like yeah, and yeah, I have to be careful there thinking I’m hilarious when I’m, yeah, that’s


Dr Sabina Brennan  49:51

kind of a funny thing, because that’s kind of an Irish thing. We kind of have that. Well, some of us have that you do yourself down and you slag other people off and Yeah, yeah, maybe not everybody has that kind of thing. I noticed that when you interact with people from other countries cultures or whatever, you kind of have to temporary particularly the language thing, you know, because I’d say fucking this And from that, and some people just don’t use it.


Dr Sabina Brennan  50:14

I was reared on CNT like, you know


Sabina Brennan  50:16

where, you know, that was that was a taboo one. I preserve that for some people. There’s two people I reserve it for,


Dr Sabina Brennan  50:23

I’ll say pointing here, just in case no one has anybody be like my dad would be like all the pointing, careworn start Oh, look at that bond. It wasn’t till I moved to Dublin in London, you realize that it was connected to the vagina. This is like connected to a bad vagina or something. I’m not actually sure what this is connected to.


Dr Sabina Brennan  50:41

Yeah, neither mine really just thought it was it’s a really, really bad word. No, that was a really bad word. My mother actually didn’t use bad language at all. Which was really, actually quite funny. When she got dementia, the language that came out for was off was just brilliant. You gotta go. It was in there all the time. Yeah.


Dr Sabina Brennan  51:01

One of my daughter said, The teachers are wondering why she was getting on. So well, with this particular teacher. All the parents have problems with this teacher. And one of the moms said, Look, why does your daughter get on so well, you know, they’re taking on grace in the classroom. And I asked her, she said, Oh, yeah, whenever that teacher is talking to me, I just do my head, I go, f an F and F and F and F and F and F and F and F and F and H or something I was doing, okay, that’s fine. Just just keep that in your head. Because that was her to when she just now the wave smile going. You’re an F and F and F, and I think you’re an F and and you can FA and she just smile away? Like imagining the person would like clown nose or no clothes. Yeah, yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  51:39

yeah, yeah. I often wonder if it’s linked to being an actor, that kind of thing. Someone said that to me, once God is your emotions are very near the surface. And it’s funny, I’m putting my hand there, you know, kind of on my chest, just under my voice box now. And our emotions are in our amygdala, you know, in the center part of our brain. It’s an unconscious part. But I guess I can access my emotions very easily. I think that helps you, if you want to be an actor. But it also means that as a human being, you feel an awful lot of things a lot more than other people feel them. And that isn’t always a good thing. Yeah, you know, and I would be


Dr Sabina Brennan  52:23

an easily so yeah, that’s probably why I avoid confrontation. If your emotions are here, you would get used to


Dr Sabina Brennan  52:29

  1. Yeah, I mean, I suppose what my mother would have described me maybe as being highly strong, you know, that kind of way, like, so I would have in my youth have had a lot of confrontations. A lot of arguments, a lot of hours, I was the youngest of five, we had a very strict family, Boss, I had this humongous sense of justice, race. No, that is not right. That should not be happening. You should not be doing that. And it didn’t matter. If I saw a guardian or we just call them then like, you know, somebody you shouldn’t approach on the street dropping letter, I would say did you pick that up? Like really, I had no filters, no bars, and you know, I have done it. I’ve done it as an adult. I’ve done it several times. I’ve had my husband pulled me back and say you can’t do that. And I think as I’ve got a bit older, I’ve learned to filter and stop that. But I am sort of fearless when it comes to if I see something wrong happening. I’ll say it. I don’t know what it is, you know. And I mean, I did have a woman in a fast food store nearly jumped over a counter to punch me in the face because I gave out to her for hitting her child. That was one of those where I felt guilt for days afterwards because I felt I had to speak up for the child. She had about four kids. She was only bully and one of them and being horrible. It was horrible to watch. And what was awful was everybody in this fast food place was sitting watching it and saying nothing. And I’m looking at this six year old being his been demoralized, being demeaned. And I actually think a certificate your mom can teach you like that. And I said don’t be doing that. And she says he’s mine. I can fuckin do what I like with them. And I said you cannot. And I said, Listen to me, son, your mom should not be doing that to you. You do not deserve to be treated like that blackout. Who did? I think I was my husband literally dragged me out. She was going to punch me in the face


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:21

your page here because when you said at first, I mean, I didn’t know if it was a tap on the wrist.


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:25

Oh, no, she was really beating the child up. Like it was horrible. It was just horrible stuff. And everybody was just ignoring it. And I just said what is that doing to that child?


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:35

What age was the child?


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:36

I’d say about six. Hopefully that child will remember


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:39

that moment. That was


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:41

what I consoled myself with because I also went home thinking Fuck, she’s probably going to beat the shit out of the child when she takes him home.


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:48

There is that side of it as well. But she’s doing that anyway. She’s doing that anyway. Is that click something in that child’s brain that went this isn’t okay. Actually. Yeah.


Dr Sabina Brennan  54:57

Like you see parents. I You lose and as I said you know I’ve done things to my kids no not like that but you know that you regret you’ve shouted at them or or whatever but


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:08

like listen I’m not quite oh my god I’ve thrown my kids onto the site I threw my daughter and her friend over there was really rude to me and I thought they’d walk back to the house which was down the hill the poor girl walked back to her own house miles where to go and find you know, yeah whatever but


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:21

being tell her mother


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:24

her own multiple choices it just but


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:27

there’s another brother could take it really badly.


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:29

Aaron No, no, nobody takes me seriously.


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:31

Where are you from? Now? What’s your Aaron?


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:33

Aaron? I’m from white church near Blarney in Cork all right okay,


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:36

so that’s why you’re going to set charity Valentine in car Yeah,


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:40

good. Michigan cork Yeah, we were I was going to do a little test on you to see how brainy you are.


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:45

I know I’m not very brainy yeah go on.


Dr Sabina Brennan  55:47

Hey, this is a heater hole test. So see how many answers you get right in 30 seconds right oh Jesus now I’m under pressure. Yeah, so no, it’s a word association one and you have to get the right words that are you’ve thought of as well so you have to get the same answer Are you thought of Okay,


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:03

can I not just come up with the first one think of you can so am I meant to come up with the first thing I think of are what I think you might have come up with


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:12

that you think of but it’s more the connect with my answers. So you have to also be able to read my mind because your remaining


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:18

Okay, yeah, I did. I tried to in the mind reading thing on your marks.


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:21

It’s also where I’m gonna say words you say words Association. Ready, steady. Go. ass. Told part. whole key hole nine. Hole blow. Oh, cubby hole pie. Hole peep hole help. Hello worm hole the stone right 30 seconds don’t


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:49

Oh, I was waiting for one that didn’t have hold where I would just say everyone just says hold Do


Dr Sabina Brennan  56:56

they have never done the test before. Just tried it on you


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:02

it’s amazing how many words and and whole you know and I love that idea of heal your whole I thought it was so funny at first when I heard it when Emily told me about it but it’s brilliant the way you put that all together you know and you can just kind of


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:17

it well it’s gonna die data at some point so i’ve i’ve on episode 76 of this stage.


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:22

I yeah, I’ve done 100 and something but I only started at the same time as you now I started on the ninth of March 2020


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:29

Wow. You’ve done more than one a week then.


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:32

I’ve done two a week yeah, but I’ve also taken breaks I do the season and then take a break although between kind of season


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:38

Yeah, but yours actually have information I mean mine is next episode 69 was me talking to people on the street about just having 60 Niners or whether they still


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:45

are brilliant. You know what, like brilliant. Does anyone know that? I remember joke from that that’s what’s come from my mind. What’s the 68 for play? Give me a blowjob and I’ll owe you one


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:57

oh my god I need to write that down.


Dr Sabina Brennan  57:59

Well I like to finish my podcast with my guests and seniors were each other’s guests. I like to finish it with your tip for thriving and or surviving in life. If you have a tip.


Norma Sheahan  58:10

Yeah, like my dad would always say he doesn’t see it actually. Bush got over a few of them can I have to give me a few oh that’s okay.


Dr Sabina Brennan  58:20

Give me a few


Norma Sheahan  58:21

Right okay, well, I see my dad, nothing is a problem. So just say yes, it can be grand and and stop thinking thinking start faking doing so if your brain is in beats just physically do something as he is very physical man. So I guess they’re kind of things I’m sorry another one he said is worrying is like paying interest on a debt you haven’t received are brilliant so I probably just go to him whenever I got to worry or whenever I’m getting stuck in the head or nothing is a problem because if you think something is a problem today there’s always a bigger one room for corridors that are someone else has a worse life than you it’s not really a problem. Yeah, it’s just get on with this lawsuit. The two things that are gonna get you through the next moment. You’re not just get your keys and get your mobile and your passport and whatever it is. Stop worrying about the other 75 things you were meant to bring which or whatever. I don’t know I’ve given you too many there. No Yeah, I


Dr Sabina Brennan  59:13

haven’t. It’s kinda on the one it’s really just do it, isn’t it? It’s like that Nikes


Dr Sabina Brennan  59:17

you know, poke your hole and get up get up off your morning.